21:00:54 #startmeeting 21:01:01 Meeting started Wed Apr 20 21:00:54 2011 UTC. The chair is lightguard_jp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 21:01:01 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 21:01:19 #chair mojavelinux 21:01:23 Current chairs: lightguard_jp mojavelinux 21:01:39 hey everyone! 21:01:48 good to be back in the land of the sane 21:01:54 for a few days at least 21:02:06 #meetingtopic 2011-04-20 Meeting 21:02:43 morning all 21:02:47 hey shane 21:03:31 Shall we start with our first agenda item? 21:03:50 yes, let's get moving 21:03:54 Oh, first off, since I think this is our first meeting since the release, AWESOME JOB TO EVERYONE!! 21:03:59 #topic Formatting change must be done by May 1st 21:04:34 some modules are already done, but now we are in a half in, half out situation, so let's just plow through and get this done 21:04:50 #info source formatting was talked about in a previous meeting, also formatting is in the build module 21:05:23 #agreed 21:05:27 #info We will change modules that don't have it done by the 1st 21:05:35 Please change your own module though :) 21:05:39 perhaps we need to identify which modules are not done...best would be to create a jira in your module 21:05:46 that way we can track when you've got it done 21:05:57 We can do that that. 21:06:01 forge should change too 21:06:28 Since I've been living in JIRA land for a little while, I can take that item. 21:06:46 #action lightguard_jp Will create JIRA issues in modules that need to be converted 21:07:06 excellent, thanks 21:07:26 Any questions about what this is or what it entails? 21:07:56 #topic New Community Integrator 21:08:08 mojavelinux: greetings :) 21:08:25 hey ove! 21:08:32 is the change in code formatting, headers, both? 21:08:36 And what does that title mean exactly? 21:08:41 mojavelinux: good to see you back here 21:08:53 Looks like we moved too fast :) 21:09:03 backing up 21:09:07 #topic Formatting change must be done by May 1st 21:09:20 mojavelinux: you should be in Norway now! It's getting awesome here. Nice temp and it's warming up... Just like Seam! 21:09:29 Header should be there, but I don't think it's required, the code formatting is what we're talking about here 21:09:33 the headers are less important, I'm more concerned that we need to have the formatting right so that patches are not messy, and we can actually get on people for breaking whitespace 21:09:39 Faces doesn't have the header 21:09:43 right now, ball is in our court 21:09:48 the headers are more "as you go" 21:09:55 but the headers should be on all java and xml files 21:10:02 asl header 21:10:26 i think it's important especially with git since it's so easy to cherry pick files 21:10:31 If it's helpful for people we could setup a checkstyle file for this 21:10:36 we want to keep the attribution 21:10:40 I'll add the ASL headers back in to FAces - the old GPL headers were removed in a rush job 21:10:44 cool 21:10:48 Does forge need to move to asl? 21:10:58 Think it's still lgpl 21:11:03 really? 21:11:07 yes 21:11:14 forge is moving to EPL though 21:11:18 Oops, we missed that one 21:11:22 yeah, I noticed that too. I thought it was intentional 21:11:27 it is intentional at the moment 21:11:35 i believed what bleathem believed as well. 21:11:39 according the master 21:11:44 forge has no license https://github.com/seam/forge/blob/master/dist/src/main/assembly/licence.txt 21:11:57 forge has a license to kill :P 21:12:04 hahaha 21:12:11 in soviet russia, forge license you 21:12:15 hehe 21:12:23 more like a license to ill. 21:12:30 johnament: are you ok to write the next module spotlight? 21:12:50 sbryzak: it's like 80% done, Jordan was going to give it a once over. 21:13:03 johnament: great, do you think it will be ready early next week? 21:13:18 sbryzak: i'll probably have it to Saturday morning. 21:13:23 okay, next topic 21:13:28 #topic New Community Integrator 21:13:32 johnament: cool, i'll let gunnar know that he can write the next one 21:13:37 #info Jason was previously the community integrator 21:13:48 I have since moved on 21:13:54 that was fast 21:14:04 the purpose of this job is that someone from the community has rights to merge code across modules, when the core team can't get to it 21:14:15 otherwise, things can get stuck 21:14:20 To full developer @ Red Hat, and now wield the awesome power of admin for all projects. :) 21:14:24 jason is now admin 21:14:39 so brian is now appointed community integrator :) 21:14:51 congrats Brian! 21:14:55 We've appointed someone new (he doesn't know it yet) 21:15:00 #info Brian Leathem now has the role of community integrator 21:15:04 w00t! 21:15:08 Congrats Brian 21:15:12 #info bleathem is the new Community Integrator 21:15:24 that explains the gihub message I got earlier 21:15:37 bleathem: i wouldn't be celebrating, it means more work ;p 21:15:41 I think we need to add him in github though, don't we? Or has that been done? 21:15:46 so this was another case of mojavelinux changing someone before telling him, right? 21:15:56 yes, you got appointed and then notified :) 21:16:02 Dan and I both talked about it 21:16:06 we move you along fast around here 21:16:22 I think Shane was sleeping at that time 21:16:39 i'm doing a lot of that these days 21:16:43 still recovering from the release 21:17:00 Can't blame you there 21:17:27 so the point of the community integrator is two fold 21:18:05 So my responsibilities in this role are to perform pull requests as appropriate when someone from the core can't get to it? 21:18:09 Put an #info in there 21:18:13 one, it's to help distribute the work of merging in patches when a module lead can't get to it, so you have the ability to help if you are available (no requirement) 21:18:18 So it's in the notes 21:18:22 got it 21:18:49 #info The Community Integrator is to help distribute the work of merging in patches when a module lead can't get to it, so you have the ability to help if you are available (no requirement) 21:18:56 and second is to make sure the community has equal voice with core devs...so a balance of "power" though I don't like that word 21:19:14 you are a branch of gov't :) 21:19:19 #info second is to make sure the community has equal voice with core devs...so a balance of "power" though I don't like that word 21:19:39 I'm surprised that Jason doesn't like the word. 21:19:44 I'm making this stuff up as I go along, but I wouldn't be the first :) 21:19:58 sweet, I'm a bureaucrat now 21:20:03 hahaha 21:20:10 He helps keep us honest 21:20:14 you keep us honest 21:20:18 hahaha 21:20:28 it must be redhat syndrome... repeating each other 21:20:34 you are Andreson Cooper or Bill Maher, whichever you fancy best 21:20:38 That's anti bureaucracy :) 21:21:00 #topic SEAMXML -> SEAMCONFIG 21:21:11 I'll go with Rick Mercer 21:21:15 Too bad stuart isn't here 21:21:20 (Canadian equivalent) 21:21:24 awesome 21:21:43 #info one of the remaining inconsistencies from the Seam Config rename was the JIRA key; can't change a JIRA key unfortunately 21:22:21 #info all issues have been migrated to the new key, so now the module is officially config all the way through 21:22:29 thanks to Jason for taking care of that 21:22:40 We did lose the version mapping with issues, sorry 21:23:45 water over the damn, we forge ahead 21:24:00 #topic Git workflow 21:24:23 #info Jason has also migrated all projects to the official Git workflow that JBoss IT created from my original prototype workflow 21:24:37 #info you shouldn't notice any change, but it's good that we are aligned 21:24:52 Shouldn't really affect anything from a day to day usage 21:24:56 We still have the pull request step 21:25:00 That's the big one. 21:25:31 git [12forge] push 10master7 d739869.. 6Lincoln Baxter, III vanity 21:25:35 git [12forge] push 10master URL: http://github.com/seam/forge/compare/ee1eb69...d739869 21:25:39 yes, and if you look at the low level details, it actually fixes a problem in the workflow (I can't remember what it is right now) 21:25:44 damn it lincoln, that crown is going to your head 21:25:48 hahaha 21:25:53 lol 21:25:57 #topic JIRA hookup in GitHub 21:26:01 Jason, you want to fill in the details here 21:26:36 I'm still toying with this to see what it gives us and what we need, but github can recognize jira tickets in commit messages 21:26:52 It can also walk things through the workflow, but it uses the id of the next workflow step 21:27:10 Not sure if I like that, very cryptic commit messages 21:27:26 I'd say just the link would be a huge first step 21:27:30 like [SEAMSERVLET-32 transition: 54] 21:27:34 jira [3SEAMSERVLET-32] ImplicitHttpServletObjectsProducer.getHttpServletResponse() returns null [10Resolved (Done) Bug,7 Blocker,6 Unassigned] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMSERVLET-32 21:27:39 Wow, that was actually a ticket 21:27:57 good thing it was already fixed too 21:28:13 We should be good with [SEAMSERVLET-##] style though. I have it in catch, let me know if you want to try it out in your module. 21:28:32 Pretty sure it needs to be in brackets too. 21:28:40 Like I said, still playing around with it. 21:28:47 I've got SEAMFACES-## in many of my commit messages. Will this automatically link up? 21:28:55 awesome, play around we'll check back next week...actually, pilot brian too 21:29:00 or do I have to do something to get that? 21:29:06 because he will fix about a trillion bugs before next week :) 21:29:13 #info contact lightguard_jp if you want JIRA issue resolution in your github module 21:29:17 lol 21:29:25 Okay 21:29:36 lightguard_jp: "I want JIRA issue resolution in your github module" 21:29:40 we have a JIRA for our national debt and global climate change, do you have a fix for those? 21:29:45 #action lightguard_jp will add the JIRA integration to Seam Faces 21:29:49 ^in my 21:29:56 our gov't needs JIRA 21:30:03 lightguard_jp: "I want JIRA issue resolution in my github modules" 21:30:14 #info we also now have commit emails going to those who commit to the projects 21:30:22 oh, that's right, expand on that 21:30:35 May need to tweak that python code a bit still, but now when you push a contribution they'll get an email saying it was added. 21:30:49 DEBT-59: We are giving wall street too many bailouts 21:31:02 #action lightguard_jp will add JIRA integration to Seam JMS 21:31:09 and how is that hooked up (the thank you e-mail)? 21:31:14 (leading question) 21:31:34 yeah, i just got one of those 21:31:38 It's done via a post-commit web hook setup in the admin of the repo 21:31:51 Like I said, may need to play with that a bit :) 21:32:02 an app we currently host on GAE and written by Manik 21:32:06 lightguard_jp: what about Seam JCR? 21:32:10 The old program (Python GAE) I don't think worked 21:32:15 Had to tweak it last night / this morning 21:32:20 but it will be rewritten by Jason by the time it's all done...and why it is in python, only Manik knows 21:32:25 see 21:32:30 #action lightguard_jp will add JIRA integration to Seam JCR 21:32:34 thank you :-) 21:32:45 It's either Python or Java to run on GAE 21:32:59 Probably easier in python anyway :) 21:33:05 and python is the obvious choice for a company that uses about 99% java 21:33:13 hehehe 21:33:19 JBoss or Red Hat ;) ? 21:33:24 jboss 21:33:28 1% is ruby 21:33:32 torquebox 21:33:37 hahaha 21:33:41 mojavelinux: it's probably a jython instance on top of the fake JVM running 21:33:45 And the next version of bots will be in Ruby if I have my say :) 21:33:52 that's fine, just no python 21:34:08 it strangles me 21:34:18 If we could get access to a server we could do it in whatever we want :) 21:34:23 It just needs to have a URL to hit 21:34:41 yes, that's the next step...we just needed a short term fix because we aren't handing out any credits right now 21:34:45 Something we need to take up with Red Hat 21:34:50 and pete thanks everyone for faces commits 21:34:54 since it was still running on his instance 21:35:07 so now it will come from the module lead, right? 21:35:25 It comes from seamdev@gmail.com I believe 21:35:34 It's setup to only come from one email 21:35:43 ah, I know 21:35:51 A future version could be expanded to come from the module lead 21:35:56 make it come from seam-commits-owner@lists.jboss.org 21:36:22 #action lightguard_jp change the email from in the commit emails to seam-commits-owner@lists.jboss.org 21:36:41 I'm getting bombarded with the action items, good thing they're small 21:36:57 you're doing awesome ;) 21:37:14 We should probably move on to the two big agenda items 21:37:20 While we still have 20 min left 21:37:24 while on this topic, jason is going to be working on consolidating irc logs and bots at jboss...a longer term project, but it's going to be awesome 21:37:32 okay, last two items 21:37:40 #topic Development Methodology for Seam 21:38:06 I bring this up after having a conversation with someone respectable at 33rd degree (and agile expert) 21:38:25 anyway, we were talking and I realized that someone I was assuming that open source projects don't need a dev methodology 21:38:30 we just code like wild west 21:38:38 which has been great, but I don't think it's sustainable 21:38:46 we've had some attempt at a methodology 21:38:50 it's called slide-driven planning 21:39:00 someone presents a schedule on a slide at a conference that no one has ever seen 21:39:09 then we have to stick to that because we made a stupid promise 21:39:21 * bleathem guilty 21:39:26 so we need to kill that approach and pick something sustainable 21:39:30 well, inversely guilty 21:39:35 Sounds good 21:39:39 you were the victim 21:39:54 bleathem: i have to say, faces has been taking a beating on the forums. 21:40:05 :( 21:40:21 I went through a bunch of forum posts last night, will do sao again tonight 21:40:47 People are looking for a Seam 2 migration guide 21:40:54 Yep 21:40:58 What's the plan there? 21:41:02 I don't really have a suggestion here... 21:41:06 Another loose end for us 21:41:11 oh, migration guide, well, yes, just like jason said 21:41:15 another "maybe it will happen by magic" 21:41:27 on that topic 21:41:33 You mean "maybe someone in the community will do it for us" ? 21:41:37 i have an app at work, trying to port it. 21:41:42 Seems like something we could recruit community memebers to do, if thery were given a sandbox to work in 21:41:46 Kind of needs someone to migrate an app like wiki example and doc changes 21:41:50 and an outline to build on 21:41:54 at least on the faces side + persistence, I can probably provide something 21:42:11 A big part of this is the Seam2/CDI compat 21:42:16 Which isn't there. 21:42:22 I don't have any Seam 2 experience, so I can't help out much in this regard 21:42:30 i think the first step is, where do we start aggregating notes 21:42:36 If they had that then they can still use Seam 2 but use CDI and migrate the stuff slowly. 21:42:43 Do we need a topic for this? 21:42:50 we have a wiki page, but is that okay with everyone? or should we make it simpler 21:43:05 #topic seam 2 migration guide, how can we get it off the ground 21:43:17 we need a volunteer to work on the compatibility module 21:43:44 * bleathem *crickets* 21:43:49 I can help out, but not until after JUDCon 21:43:53 fortunately, rick hightower did part of the work already 21:43:57 in a sense 21:44:03 with the spring integration ? 21:44:08 it will be a two part process 21:44:12 because he integrated cdi and spring...which is going to be pretty similar to how we do it with seam 2 21:44:16 I think the easiest starting point is how to convert those 100+ *.page.xml and pages.xml that are sitting in every project into view config 21:44:20 Yeah, we could piggy back some of that 21:44:24 marek will have to work on the seam 2 side of it 21:44:33 ah, so we need a forge plugin 21:44:37 mojavelinux: have you tried it? when i tested it on sunday it barely works. 21:44:41 we don't have to convert pages.xml 21:44:45 to convert pages.xml into view config types 21:44:50 View config is missing some of the pages.xml functionality still 21:44:54 that would be a good plugin actually 21:44:58 mojavelinux: i was thinking that too 21:45:06 as seam 2 will be running inside the container 21:45:28 it's really a question of whether we are helping them migrate or helping them stay 21:45:36 if they migrate, they don't need the bridge 21:45:42 so part of the guide is just about pure migration 21:45:46 A "migration guide" is seperate from a "compatibility module" though 21:45:50 we need to do two things 21:45:54 get off seam 2 in favor of seam 3/cdi 21:45:59 that's one path 21:46:03 1) provide the bridge so that they can run their seam 2 app inside a cdi container 21:46:07 yes, what bleathem said 21:46:20 2) provide a migration guide, so that they can slowly migrate their seam 2 components to cdi 21:46:32 I would say #2 may also be a cold turkey switch 21:46:44 the migration guide isn't going to be difficult 21:46:48 meaning, same text, some people just might do it more dramatically 21:46:54 it's #1 that's more work to implement 21:47:18 #2 is tough though, because some stuff isn't supported yet 21:47:22 well, the migration guide is going to take a long time to get right, and it will be more about collective input 21:47:27 i get the impression from the forums that some people do want to go cold turkey 21:47:31 Is #1 what people are asking for, or do they want #2? 21:47:35 because it's not just "this is this", it has to be partially story driven 21:47:40 we really need to start working on #1 though 21:48:02 seam 2.4 is planned to be the last maintenance release for seam 2.x 21:48:06 we need to move forward with both in parallel 21:48:15 it is supposed to contain the compatibility features 21:48:36 we don't need to worry about implementing that, although we will have to work with marek to get it done 21:48:43 So 2.4 is meant to be CDI runnable? 21:48:52 kenfinnigan: that's the plan 21:49:05 after that's released, no more seam 2 21:49:17 as we will have provided a complete migration strategy for seam 2 apps 21:49:42 so we need to decide who will lead the compat module...I think it should be Marek 21:49:56 mojavelinux: i tend to agree 21:50:10 i'll chat with him tonight and propose it to him 21:50:20 I think the guide needs to be a collective ownership that starts as a wiki page, and then you (shane), jason and I can reify it 21:50:24 and perhaps jason can take care of the seam 3 side of things 21:50:38 i think the guide needs to be a chapter in the documentation 21:50:49 however yes, it can start as a wiki page 21:51:00 i'll put a call to action on that 21:51:17 Our documentation needs some refining in general 21:51:21 if we only had a wiki that would let us edit at the same time (like google docs) 21:51:30 last topic 21:51:44 oh, before that, one more topic 21:51:48 #topic forge plugins 21:52:01 some of you have begun writing forge plugins, way to be! 21:52:13 * lightguard_jp still needs to write his 21:52:17 I'd just like to get a sense of who's given it a shot, and what we have so far 21:52:27 What issues people are running in to 21:52:40 problems? feel free to catch up with lincoln after the meeting 21:52:46 :) 21:52:53 yep, and remember to join forge-dev 21:53:05 https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/forge-dev 21:53:17 there is a newly forged arquillian plugin in the wild, so you can check that out for ideas too 21:53:26 lincoln, is there a directory yet? 21:53:38 i just missed the last 90 seconds, as I accidently changed my runmode. 21:54:07 remember to join forge-dev https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/forge-dev is what you missed 21:54:13 johnament_ we decided there was no longer a need for Seam JMS while you were gone 21:54:18 lincoln wants to know if you have any problems 21:54:22 hahaha 21:54:32 so forge is not seam? 21:55:01 forge's facebook page says "it's complicated" 21:55:18 mojavelinux: no directory yet 21:55:22 but 21:55:26 we have a repo 21:55:36 and an organization 21:55:40 https://github.com/forge 21:55:44 I see it as: Forge is more than Seam 21:55:48 right, I was just thinking that the devs can see what else people are doing without hunting for it 21:55:53 Forge will do Seam, but will eventually do much more 21:55:57 seam is our brand 21:56:02 forge needs an x-men emblem on its tights :/ 21:56:06 seam modules are one project 21:56:10 seam forge is another 21:56:48 that's how it is today, tomorrow, it could be different ;) hehehe 21:56:52 okay, parties 21:56:58 #topic JUDCon meetup(s) 21:57:07 so bleathem and I are bunking up sunday 21:57:11 if you are in town for JUDCon 21:57:15 http://community.jboss.org/wiki/BostonJBossUserGroup-LetsGetReadyToRumble2 21:57:19 Thanks for that johnament ! 21:57:24 that's the kickoff dinner 21:57:35 Sunday night, at John Howards (that's a tavern, not a person's house) 21:57:47 you have to be specific about these things, I hate when I think I'm going to a tavern and end up at a house 21:57:51 houses don't have taps 21:57:58 Sweet, I get to Boston at 5:30 pm. I might actually make it to the event! 21:58:12 mojavelinux: some houses have taps 21:58:26 hehehe 21:58:45 at 7:30 on Monday night is the community asylum live broadcast 21:59:01 we'll all go in that room, afterwards is the hackfest 21:59:07 however, based on how this has worked in the past 21:59:13 grrr 21:59:17 Forge will be representing at HackFest 21:59:21 PS. There is beer at hackfest this year. Confirmed! 21:59:26 the end of the asylum they say "let's go to the bar" and then hackfest gets ditched 21:59:30 No. 21:59:34 This time we learned from our mistakes. 21:59:39 so, we are staying at hackfest this year 21:59:43 that's what happened last year? 22:00:09 johnament_ everyone left.. 22:00:14 johnament_: the hackfest was dry 22:00:19 yep 22:00:23 ahhh 22:00:28 they left in search of beer 22:00:32 it was dry even no water 22:00:36 this is my first judcon 22:00:41 it was really dry 22:00:45 mine too, but that story has been told around many a campfire 22:00:50 so what is being hacked on? 22:00:55 but arquillian guys stayed and hacked 22:01:00 Forge hackfest! 22:01:04 hey 22:01:09 forge plugins for one 22:01:13 mojavelinux: I hacked on the first version forge javaparser! 22:01:22 I remember, you were very excited 22:01:26 you guys were writing containers 22:01:30 I'm always excited... 22:01:35 we were excited that we got the tomcat container working 22:01:39 hahah 22:01:44 how fare you've all come! 22:01:49 ^far 22:01:53 bring something you want feedback on 22:02:28 so the one thing to decide is, when should we have a seam community meetup...perhaps not just the hackfest, don't want to double book 22:02:54 I'd say either post-hackfest ~10:30PM or so 22:02:58 I have to leave Tuesday at ~2pm 22:03:02 or Tuesday night ~9:00PM 22:03:32 AFAIK the only thing going on Tuesday night is the Summit / World Keynote 22:03:48 What's the agenda for the seam community meetup? 22:03:58 Good question 22:04:02 I'll let Dan field that one 22:04:14 so my idea for the meetup is to get to know each other in person, and to brainstorm at a higher level 22:04:21 hackfest is actual code 22:04:26 We need some kind of strategy planning moving forward from 3.0.0.Final 22:04:54