06:46:21 <maxandersen> #startmeeting
06:46:27 <jbott> Meeting started Wed May 11 06:46:21 2011 UTC.  The chair is maxandersen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
06:46:27 <jbott> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
06:46:38 <maxandersen> #topic face2face
06:46:43 <maxandersen> so ready for 34 hours travel?
06:46:58 <irooskov> :S yeah....all booked :P
06:47:03 <irooskov> then 34hrs back again
06:47:15 <maxandersen> sounds fun
06:47:37 <irooskov> I think our definitions of fun are different :P
06:47:41 <irooskov> but, should be worth it
06:47:45 <maxandersen> :)
06:48:34 <maxandersen> so for next week - I think we got alot a stuff to cover but also can't cover it all
06:49:10 <maxandersen> so we should lay out the things we *must*, should, could do so we dont waste too much time ;)
06:49:25 <irooskov> I have been talking with mhideo and jwulf concerning some topics I'll be talking about while there....the main one being the template. Seems there might be something better we could do...but don't know if we can just yet....trying to get jwulf to give the a-ok for me to at least present the idea while there...and will hopefully know tomorrow
06:49:57 <maxandersen> what is the hold up ?
06:52:00 <irooskov> well there might be a better way to go then the template but unsure atm, hard to explain but I'll know what I'm talking about by tomorrow
06:52:21 <maxandersen> hehe okey ;)
06:52:50 <maxandersen> one thing I would like you to consider is what the option is/are to just do eclipse help as the primary format
06:53:15 <maxandersen> and only do installation and crosscutting tutorials in docbook format
06:53:45 <maxandersen> i.e. the reference guides with the template format be targeteed at inclusion into the IDE
06:56:26 <irooskov> hmmm....ok, so reference guides would only be built as eclipse and not books as well? could be easy to do both
06:57:31 <maxandersen> irooskov: well sure, but just saying priority could shift to be included in the plugin/ide build so that is the priority
06:59:30 <irooskov> maxandersen, ah, ok, np
07:01:11 <maxandersen> so my guess is that your monday will be "Slow" after all the travel ;)
07:01:45 <maxandersen> so tuesday i've for now put QE and Docs at the center stage
07:02:51 <maxandersen> intent being you outline for those who don't know what docs do - especially also what you don't do (i.e. magically guess what a feature does without hearing from devs)
07:03:39 <irooskov> haha, for sure
07:03:53 <maxandersen> and then we need to promote the idea of dev actually getting to write these reference guides or at least push blogs or something out explaining in more depth than just screenshots what the functionallity is for.
07:04:13 <maxandersen> this might not be for everyone but it got to get better than what we have now.
07:06:10 <irooskov> maxandersen, i just got the go ahead to present something new to you guys that will mean they can contribute without writing docbook
07:06:14 <irooskov> ;)
07:06:20 <irooskov> but won't make much sense me mentioning it over
07:06:24 <maxandersen> irooskov: which part is that ?
07:06:29 <irooskov> irc
07:06:44 <maxandersen> is it the community site doc thing ?
07:06:53 <irooskov> na, something cooler
07:07:02 <irooskov> you'll be the first group to hear about it
07:07:07 <maxandersen> hmmm….
07:07:16 <maxandersen> care to enlighten me just a little ? :)
07:08:07 * maxandersen personally hopes its not something that requires a network connection to write ;)
07:08:12 <irooskov> ah, it sorta takes ben's idea but makes it usable...topic authoring but without all the silly files
07:08:44 <irooskov> it's something i will show you and see what you guys think...we can either do it or not, but you guys are gonna want to :D
07:09:40 <maxandersen> give me a hint please ;)
07:11:14 <irooskov> sure, one minute, i'll write something up and post it through
07:11:40 <maxandersen> whats the format/syntax ? in sourcecontrol ? web ? does it generate eclipse help ? :)
07:11:58 <maxandersen> sell me over and ill be able help next week
07:15:03 <irooskov> A new system that allows devleopers to write information in plain text and submit it as a task, reference or concept item into a database where I can then come, pull it out, quickly mark it up and submit it into svn. After that, to build a book, we can just select the type of book we want....ie: we want a JBDS (checkbox) installation guide (checkbox) that is aimed at administators (checkbox). And then you could do the same thin
07:15:08 <irooskov> g but check for devloper rather than administator and it would generate a slightly different book with slightly different content.
07:15:14 <irooskov> Output is as usual, html, html-single, pdf, eclipse etc..
07:15:20 <irooskov> More to it, and just an idea, but I think it could help us out
07:16:28 <maxandersen> hmmm….sounds like even more process around something that is alread heavyweight …. but lets see the beast
07:17:18 <irooskov> at the moment it just supports publican, but I have been speaking with the team behind it (in house) and we can easily make it build for maven as well since publican is much harder to make docs build for than maven. It's something I would implement after the 4.1 release was out, for the JBDS 5 release. By that time they will have maven builds going - I'm told it would only take about a week. It's a process that EAP 6 is already
07:17:23 <irooskov> using, and since they are writing procedures on how to us AS with JBDS, this would also mean we could re-use content between our books with the click of a button
07:17:27 <maxandersen> I assume its a *public* site so doesn't need vpn nor require doc team to extract data ?
07:18:09 <irooskov> maxandersen, atm it's an internal site, but if we decide to take it on for JBDS and JBT, we would have our own public version so all the JBT docs are still where they are
07:18:40 <irooskov> internal because the current one is just for EAP 6, but we would spin one up for JBDS and JBT that would talk to it
07:18:48 <irooskov> at least, that's what I've been told
07:19:09 <irooskov> jwulf is excited about JBDS using it since it is his baby for EAP 6 - been speaking with him about it today
07:19:25 <irooskov> so, he'd make sure you guys got what you needed and wanted before we went there
07:19:40 <maxandersen> okey - have no idea why one would do eap 6 internally when AS 7 is so new
07:20:34 <irooskov> all eap docs are kept internally as AS documentation is very different since EAP docs pull in from over 25 different community projects and not just AS
07:20:54 <irooskov> they are kept internally more just because we have no-where else to put them ;)
07:21:16 <irooskov> we did at one point put them in the AS repo, but they didn't like that
07:21:32 <irooskov> the AS community didn't like it, that is
07:21:40 <maxandersen> so I'll need to see this thing since it add ins much more complexity to our setup.
07:22:47 <irooskov> I can show you next week, but it's too hard to show over IRC
07:22:52 <maxandersen> sure understood
07:23:10 <irooskov> but I can show you before I talk about it if you'd like
07:23:52 <maxandersen> would be great
07:24:02 <irooskov> agreed :)
07:24:41 <maxandersen> but no matter what format it gets input into the idea would be to get something like reference guides with this or more tutorial based?
07:24:56 <maxandersen> tutorials does not sound like something one could do in these small bites
07:25:01 <irooskov> yes, absolutely
07:25:17 <irooskov> in fact, seeing it in action today, i believe it will get us there faster
07:26:19 <maxandersen> but I don't see JBDS docs be for anyone else than developers so not sure the different ways of extracting for installation, admin, etc. makes sense to us - but probably need to see it to understand it
07:27:33 <irooskov> yeah, it was perhaps a bad example off the top of my head ;P just meant to demonstrate to you the flexibility it affords us in how we can re-use content in different ways
07:28:54 <maxandersen> okey - never seen that applied well in docs; well except for very few stable things like installation and setup.
07:29:43 <irooskov> true, but as JBoss products crossover more, it will become more useful
07:29:49 <maxandersen> but users seem to have a hard time abstracting over that screenshots shows something specific which isn't the exact thing - i.e. installation instructions for hibernate tools into eclipse referencing screenshots that shows BPEL getting installed.
07:30:09 <irooskov> yeah, that kind of thing wouldn't happen
07:30:46 <irooskov> screenshots and text would be coupled as a single topic
07:31:03 <irooskov> and a topic would be like an entire task
07:31:13 <irooskov> like, creating a new seam project
07:32:02 <maxandersen> gotcha
07:32:20 <maxandersen> so yeah, show the beast and we'll see if its tame enough to bring into the house ;)
07:32:36 <maxandersen> I gotta run for the office.
07:32:46 <maxandersen> Anything else before we end for today?
07:33:02 <irooskov> na man, that's me
07:33:11 <irooskov> just glad all the travel stuff is sorted
07:33:16 <irooskov> ;)
07:36:45 <maxandersen> goodie ;)
07:36:52 <maxandersen> #endmeeting