14:10:00 <pmuir> #startmeeting
14:10:00 <jbott> Meeting started Mon Jun 27 14:10:00 2011 UTC.  The chair is pmuir. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:10:00 <jbott> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:10:29 <pmuir> I'll start unless anyone has a disagreement ;-)
14:11:01 <manik> pmuir: lets start
14:11:54 <pmuir> so last week I started on the migration of the user guide to confluence - i hope that some people have managed to take a look at their articles
14:12:15 <pmuir> oops
14:12:18 <pmuir> #topic pmuir
14:12:27 <pmuir> so last week I started on the migration of the user guide to confluence - i hope that some people have managed to take a look at their articles
14:12:29 <vblagoje> yes, i did, they look pretty decent
14:12:33 <pmuir> #link so last week I started on the migration of the user guide to confluence - i hope that some people have managed to take a look at their articles
14:12:42 <pmuir> #link https://docs.jboss.org/author/display/ISPN/Home
14:13:06 <pmuir> Yes, the import worked reasonably well... I've had to fix a few bits manually
14:13:28 <pmuir> I've split it up into 4 sections for now - User Guide - fairly obvious
14:13:59 <pmuir> Tutorials - again fairly obvious. At some point I would like to rename this to the getting started guide, and make the User Guide the "Reference Guide"
14:14:06 <pmuir> but I need to juggle some content to do this
14:14:12 <pmuir> then we have FAQs
14:14:35 <pmuir> I decided to put these on confluence rather than the wiki as I think it's a better tool by far for structured content
14:14:51 <manik> pmuir: cool, good stuff
14:14:56 <pmuir> then we have videos - these were part of the user guide and I think I should reintegrate them
14:15:13 <pmuir> and finally Developing Infinispan (which needs a rename, but I need help with that
14:15:16 <pmuir> )
14:15:36 <pmuir> my plan this week is to start going through and getting the style consistent
14:15:44 <pmuir> and to make a list of what we are missing
14:15:59 <pmuir> with that, I will then write up a style guide + start pestering people for content ;-)
14:16:11 <pmuir> so, wdyt about faqs?
14:16:34 <pmuir> and also, what do we call the "Developing Infinispan" guide - Sanne said that Infinispan isn't a framework so I need another word :-)
14:18:19 <pmuir> ok, i guess no one knows ;-)
14:18:28 <pmuir> I will wait for responses on the ML
14:18:32 <pmuir> ok, next one is
14:18:38 <manik> re: developing infinispan
14:18:44 <pmuir> yes go on
14:18:50 <manik> how about "Information for Infinispan Developers"
14:19:16 <manik> Or is that too easly confused with developers who use Infinispan?
14:19:47 <manik> Re: the FAQs, I think they should be broken down into sections, but yeah, fine with them being on confluence ratehr than SBS
14:21:30 <pmuir> it's a tricky one, and I think it's caused by the lack of words like "the" etc. in some languages
14:21:52 <pmuir> all I can say is that we found that adding the word framework, library etc. in there helps people get it
14:22:00 <pmuir> first time - which is important
14:22:07 <manik> "platform" ?
14:22:12 <pmuir> yeah we could do that
14:22:13 <pmuir> ok
14:22:31 <mmarkus> manik: pmuir +1 for platform
14:22:54 <pmuir> #action pmuir rename Developing the Infinispan Framework to Developing the Infinispan Platform
14:23:10 <pmuir> re faqs my plan is to have one faq per page in confluence
14:23:17 <pmuir> and then aggregate them at various levels
14:23:41 <vblagoje> what if we use word contributors, i.e "Development guide for Infinispan contributors"
14:24:12 <manik> vblagoje: that works too
14:24:20 <pmuir> or just Contributing to Infinispan
14:24:41 <pmuir> I like that
14:24:57 <pmuir> ok, my next item is
14:24:58 <pmuir> #link https://issues.jboss.org/browse/ISPN-1096
14:25:00 <jbossbot> jira [3ISPN-1096] Rework application class loading to be more friendly to modular environments [10Open (Unresolved) Feature Request,7 Blocker,6 Pete Muir] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/ISPN-1096
14:25:16 <vblagoje> yeah pmuir, that one is the best
14:25:22 <pmuir> I wrote the status and proposal to move this forward on the issue this morning
14:25:28 <pmuir> does anyone disagree?
14:27:35 <pmuir> I'll leave that open and move on to what I am planning
14:27:41 <vblagoje> i don't know much about this so I'll refrain from commenting pmuir :-)
14:27:52 <pmuir> this week we have the locking meeting in Edinburgh
14:27:55 <manik> pmuir: I haven't had a look at your proposal yet
14:28:03 <manik> I will do so later today
14:28:33 <pmuir> manik: basically issue is that all options that I can see for pulling CL into marshalling are fugly without a rearch of marshalling
14:28:41 <pmuir> and I think it's too risky to do that right now
14:29:05 <pmuir> so I propose defering this to 5.1 - esp as user api is in place today, so this would be spi change only
14:29:14 <pmuir> but yeah, we can discuss on the issue
14:29:36 <pmuir> and then otherwise this week I have a load of emails from Manik re docs, faqs etc. to add in to confluence
14:29:41 <pmuir> so that will take me a while
14:30:29 <manik> pmuir: ok
14:30:38 <pmuir> i also will start on a plan for "understanding infinispan" to be ready in 2w time - basically just what areas we need to improve on around our collatoral and look for volunteers to help with that
14:30:51 <pmuir> that's me ;-)
14:30:54 <pmuir> who is next?
14:30:56 <manik> pmuir: great!
14:30:58 <manik> thanks.
14:31:16 <vblagoje> ok I'll go next
14:31:19 <pmuir> #topic vblagoje
14:32:00 <vblagoje> so last week I spent most of my time working with Bela on a push of JGroups 3.0 towards a first beta release
14:32:30 <vblagoje> so we changed a few signatures, most notably start/stop flush and state transfer
14:33:02 <vblagoje> wrt to Infinispan
14:33:25 <vblagoje> I got really worked up about finding a cause for alleged performance issue in container
14:33:37 <manik> vblagoje: yes, I saw your emails there
14:33:44 <vblagoje> so I am working on a series of stress tests to verify these
14:33:52 <manik> vblagoje: what else do you have open for 5.0?
14:34:28 <vblagoje> I have removing flush, which i believe is solved, and enabling those tests that do not run for some reason
14:35:30 <vblagoje> in another words ISPN-83 and ISPN-1108
14:35:31 <jbossbot> jira [3ISPN-83] Remove dependency on JGroups FLUSH [10Reopened (Unresolved) Task,7 Critical,6 Vladimir Blagojevic] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/ISPN-83
14:35:32 <jbossbot> jira [3ISPN-1108] Test(s) ignored by maven [10Open (Unresolved) Bug,7 Blocker,6 Vladimir Blagojevic] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/ISPN-1108
14:36:34 <vblagoje> this week I'll focus on DataContainer performance and will resolve ISPN-1108
14:36:36 <jbossbot> jira [3ISPN-1108] Test(s) ignored by maven [10Open (Unresolved) Bug,7 Blocker,6 Vladimir Blagojevic] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/ISPN-1108
14:36:48 <vblagoje> nothing else on my plate for 5.0
14:38:33 <mmarkus> I'll take it from here then
14:38:45 <pmuir> #topic mmarkus
14:38:56 <mmarkus> last week I was at Jazoon Tue-Wen
14:39:31 <mmarkus> good conference, had lots of chats around infinispan use cases
14:40:04 <mmarkus> also there seems to be interest for the stuff I've prototyped a year ago around continuous queries
14:40:55 <mmarkus> also met bela, had some beers and discussed the way state transfer is to be implemented - cool stuff
14:41:09 <mmarkus> besides that I've tided up my stuff for 5.0
14:41:25 <manik> mmarkus: great. Anything still outstanding for 5.0?
14:41:52 <mmarkus> manik: afaik I only have a documentation-related JIRA
14:42:05 <mmarkus> so nothing really
14:43:18 <vblagoje> lets have a look at DataContainer perf. numbers together then :-)
14:43:48 <mmarkus> for this week I'll focus on the new locking stuff
14:44:01 <mmarkus> vblagoje: yes. that should be interesting
14:44:39 <mmarkus> vblagoje: shall we catch up on this on Thursday? Dan will also be here and we can ask him to join us
14:44:42 <pmuir> ok, anything else for mmarkus or shall we move on to manik ?
14:44:51 <smarlow> manik:  +1 for "miller lite" beer, they have the best video :)
14:44:56 <vblagoje> ok deal mmarkus
14:45:10 <mmarkus> pmuir: I'm done
14:45:12 <manik> ok, I can speak next
14:45:24 <manik> So I was in Rome last week, meeting with Cloud-TM
14:45:45 <manik> They have already finished an atomic broadcast based transactional impl for replication and distribution
14:46:02 <manik> and as it stands shows no performance improvements when there are no conflicts
14:46:04 <pmuir> #topic manik
14:46:13 <manik> but *huge* improvement even with a modest conflict ratio
14:46:18 <manik> (tests run on 10 servers)
14:46:33 <manik> so very cool stuff, due to the deadlock-free nature of AB
14:46:41 <manik> but there are several inefficiencies in their impl
14:46:51 <manik> which I will talk about tomorrow/Weds in Edin
14:47:02 <manik> which we can advise them on to improve things even further
14:47:15 <mmarkus> manik: cool stuff, I'm very curious about it :)
14:47:35 <manik> Anyway, I was suggesting that they also refactor their code so we can bring it upstream and have it as a configurable (non-efault) option
14:48:08 <mmarkus> manik: does the locking stuff we've been thinking about make sense then? they want to achieve the same result...
14:48:11 <manik> THey've unfortunately impl'd their changes by forking infinispan and changing our interceptors to be AB-specific
14:48:17 <manik> which breaks our existing schemes
14:48:30 <alesj> pmuir: ping?
14:48:33 <manik> SO they will need to refactor these into new Interceptors (or subclasses of existing ones)
14:48:36 <pmuir> alesj: one min
14:48:42 <manik> before we can pull this upstream
14:48:55 <manik> And as a part of this work,
14:49:08 <manik> they have implemented a TPC-C benchmark access pattern for RadarGun
14:49:23 <manik> (This is the high conflict benchmark used by most database vendors)
14:49:43 <manik> the next thing they're working on is configuration tuning hints
14:49:56 <manik> Basically a manager to monitor performance and log "recommendations"
14:50:08 <manik> e.g., buffer sizes, thread pool sizes, timeouts, etc.
14:50:23 <mmarkus> manik:  I've been granted access to their TPC-C benchmark and I'll take a look at it asap
14:50:33 <manik> Their eventual goal is to make this completely self-adjusting but step 1 is to just log recommendations
14:50:40 <manik> all in the name of usability.  ;)
14:50:52 <vblagoje> what is the planned integration release, 5.1?
14:51:00 <manik> vblagoje: yes
14:51:13 <manik> The rest of this week, apart from the locking/tx meeting in edinburgh (where we will plan integration with CloudTM work)
14:51:38 <manik> I'll be in Brussels Sun/Mon representing RHT at the EU panel for cloud-™ funding
14:52:03 <manik> Re: 5.0, let me know when you guys are ready for another CR this week and I'll punt one out
14:52:30 <pmuir> i'm ready once we agree on ISPN-1096
14:52:32 <jbossbot> jira [3ISPN-1096] Rework application class loading to be more friendly to modular environments [10Open (Unresolved) Feature Request,7 Blocker,6 Pete Muir] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/ISPN-1096
14:52:48 <pmuir> however i did notice the test suite has a lot of problems for me right now
14:52:56 <manik> pmuir: regressions?
14:53:28 <pmuir> odd, I don't see it on hudson
14:53:39 <pmuir> actyually yes i do
14:53:54 <mmarkus> manik: mind updating the agenda with atomic broadcast stuff? http://bit.ly/kmCFM9
14:55:16 <manik> mmarkus: will do
14:55:36 <manik> ok, I'll have a look at JIRA and Hudson and will ping you guys later about a release
14:55:36 <pmuir> atm locally I get Test suite progress: tests succeeded: 1146, failed: 15, skipped: 167.
14:55:47 <manik> pmuir: wow thats a lot
14:55:52 <pmuir> does anyone else see this?
14:55:59 <pmuir> manik: right ;-)
14:56:16 <pmuir> also i wanted to ask about the status of infinispan on openshift
14:56:23 <pmuir> alesj: ^^^ I know you worked on this?
14:57:18 <vblagoje> it must have been a last few commits pmuir because I did not see this last week (thursday)
14:57:52 <alesj> pmuir: Matej will have a basic cartridge in Flex till next week
14:58:40 <pmuir> vblagoje: manik: maybe it's just me - but someone should try it ;-)
14:58:46 <pmuir> alesj: ok cool thanks
15:01:41 <manik> pmuir: I'll give it a go
15:03:55 <vblagoje> so we are done with the meeting?
15:04:11 <pmuir> #endmeeting