15:04:43 <sebersole> #startmeeting
15:04:43 <jbott> Meeting started Mon Jun 27 15:04:43 2011 UTC.  The chair is sebersole. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:04:43 <jbott> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:05:24 <stliu> hi
15:05:26 <sebersole> anyone have anything they wanted to discuss today?
15:06:23 <stliu> hardy_, how is the @Embeddable going?
15:06:26 <emmanuel> sebersole: yes I have something related to aS 7 H4 and marketing
15:06:37 <hardy_> sebersole: I pushed a feature branch
15:06:56 <hardy_> it would be great if you could review it or maybe we can discuss it at some stage
15:07:10 <sebersole> hardy_: lets do that today
15:07:17 <hardy_> just wondering whether this is the right apporach. Made some changes to EntityBinding and Co
15:07:19 <hardy_> sebersole: ok
15:07:20 <sebersole> well i guess i can do my part today
15:07:28 <sebersole> if you need to go later
15:07:38 <sebersole> is this for components?
15:07:45 <hardy_> nope I will stick around
15:07:46 <sebersole> emmanuel: ok...
15:07:56 <hardy_> there is also another Search related meeting at 19
15:08:40 <sebersole> hardy_: its 18 now for you?
15:08:54 <hardy_> 17:00
15:09:42 <sebersole> emmanuel: ???
15:09:43 <emmanuel> should I talka bout mine?
15:09:46 <emmanuel> ok
15:09:48 <sebersole> yep
15:09:52 <emmanuel> #topic AS 7 marketing
15:10:23 <emmanuel> So Burr has been pinging me a lot about what we could talk about on the Hibernate front related to AS 7
15:10:41 <emmanuel> the idea is to add to the flow of press that will be unleashed to the world any time soon
15:10:47 <sebersole> well i already did one on h4
15:11:27 <sebersole> or do you mean all the sub projects?
15:11:28 <emmanuel> You guys know H4 much better than I do, so I was thinking we could try and see what points we could make in a related blog
15:11:48 <emmanuel> sebersole: We the other subproject that is inline is Hibernate Validator
15:11:58 <emmanuel> But I was thinking about Core
15:12:17 <sebersole> so have done 2 h4 related webinars already
15:12:27 <sebersole> so is he not talking about h4?
15:13:00 <emmanuel> He wants some material around aS 7 and H4 published July 5th or when ever they decide to release
15:13:15 <emmanuel> I was thinking about a few topics like
15:13:18 <sebersole> smarlow: ?
15:13:21 <emmanuel> -class laoder for modularization
15:13:38 <emmanuel> - the notion of service (again modularization)
15:14:12 <emmanuel> - the possibility for AS 7 to run a different version of Hibernate in an app if needed (smarlow is that a reality or a myth at this stage?)
15:14:50 <emmanuel> does that make sense?
15:15:17 <emmanuel> hardy_: I did not think about it initially but a paragraph or two on Hibernate Validator 4.2 will be good indeed
15:15:17 <sebersole> well i think it makes sense to talk about some of these
15:15:37 <sebersole> the change in how we deal with class loading is big
15:15:40 <hardy_> emmanuel: sure
15:16:29 <hardy_> are we talking about a blog entry on in.relation.to?
15:16:29 <sebersole> smarlow: did you end up using services at all?
15:17:07 <emmanuel> hardy_: yes with a specific tag
15:17:27 <emmanuel> I dont' think it's a problem to talk about something we talked about a few weeks / months ago
15:17:32 <emmanuel> It's more like a recap
15:17:41 <emmanuel> that can be federated somewhere I imagine
15:17:43 <sebersole> emmanuel: not talking about that
15:17:53 <sebersole> just making sure he was not asking for another webinar
15:17:58 <emmanuel> LOL
15:18:05 <emmanuel> he is asking me about a webinar
15:18:06 <hardy_> would it be enough to tag the 4.2 release blog with this tag or does it have to be a new blog entry?
15:18:10 <emmanuel> you should be safe now :)
15:18:10 <sebersole> i actually liked doing them
15:18:21 <sebersole> its just i dont have time atm
15:18:25 <sebersole> btw...
15:18:38 <sebersole> have y'all contemplated moving to another blog?
15:18:45 <emmanuel> hardy_: well an old entry does not trigger new views besides the federation
15:18:58 <emmanuel> the idea is that people hear about AS 7 everywhere form many angles
15:19:21 <sebersole> emmanuel: no problem
15:19:25 <sebersole> that makes sense
15:19:52 <emmanuel> sebersole: I'm personally happy with the blog system
15:19:53 <hardy_> i guess, if AS7 has already updated to HV 4.2 or if there is at least an issue for an upgrading one could use that for a start of short blog entry
15:20:00 <sebersole> i can envision a talk, e.g., about the class loading changes and using AS 7 intg as a case-in-point
15:20:34 <smarlow> sebersole, emmanuel:  for native Hibernate, I think that should work.  For JPA, I started the effort but pushed it off until 7.1 (it didn't seem to be a priority for AS 7.0)
15:21:06 <emmanuel> sebersole: hardy_: that makes sense to have this technical angle and then a short summary of whats' big and new in Core 4 and BV 4.2 with a pointer to the previous blog entry for detail
15:21:39 <sebersole> smarlow: in what regard?  blogging?
15:21:46 <sebersole> or mixed versions?
15:22:03 <smarlow> sebersole:  with regard to versions
15:23:05 <emmanuel> smarlow: "should work" if it ain't tested it doesn't exist :)
15:23:20 <emmanuel> smarlow: would it be safe to talk about it in a blog?
15:24:07 <smarlow> emmanuel:  I know more about the case that wouldn't work, if someone mixes JPA and native, that won't work
15:24:34 <sebersole> smarlow: how come, out of curiosity?
15:24:54 <emmanuel> smarlow: so, you're saying we should not market that feature for native Hibernate replacement
15:25:03 <smarlow> because, we are injecting the org.hibernate module dependency into the app
15:26:17 <sebersole> smarlow: is this only if they use container managed stuff?
15:26:32 <sebersole> like if they use app bootstrapping for jpa will it work?
15:26:57 <sebersole> i guess... what exactly triggers the "injecting"?
15:28:54 <sebersole> smarlow: ? ^^
15:29:16 <sebersole> hardy_: you like the blog system?
15:29:23 <hardy_> not really
15:29:29 * smarlow in a meeting in a different room
15:29:34 <hardy_> I suggested before that we move
15:30:15 <hardy_> on the other hand, it is still miles better than say the community wiki :-)
15:30:48 <hardy_> I find seam text quite limiting, but if you stick to what it offers it works at least
15:31:04 <emmanuel> hardy_: what do you miss?
15:31:05 <hardy_> also, there is a question of migrating the data I guess
15:31:50 <hardy_> having a deja vu :-)
15:31:56 <hardy_> I think emmanuel asked me that before
15:32:04 <emmanuel> haha, I forgot
15:32:14 <hardy_> one thing would be better support for code highlighting
15:32:38 <hardy_> i know Sanne had the same question before
15:33:05 <hardy_> also why is there no bold type
15:33:30 <hardy_> and who the heck need strikeout
15:33:41 <hardy_> using images I find quite hard as well
15:34:19 <hardy_> navigating your own blog entries (as in looking something up is broken as well at least the sorting options)
15:34:45 <hardy_> call it less than intuitive instead of broken
15:37:00 <hardy_> but again, I rather write a whole release blog entry on in.relation.to than changing a line on the community site
15:38:19 <hardy_> sebersole: are we still in the meeting?
15:38:34 <sebersole> sec.  phone .  sorry
15:38:41 <hardy_> np
15:41:00 <emmanuel> hardy_:  <b>TALK LOUD AND IN BOLD</b> works
15:41:23 <emmanuel> My main problem is that I tend to forget the syntax for code highlighting and images
15:41:34 <emmanuel> in which I agree with you
15:42:21 <emmanuel> I've used and use in.relation.to, blogger and Wordpress (and a few obscure one).
15:42:28 <hardy_> maybe a better help would help :-)
15:43:00 <emmanuel> I love the fact that I can write my text and most of my form in my notepad somewhere before pushing the blog
15:43:01 <hardy_> and I find that *foo* and _bar_ should be used for bold resp. italic
15:43:14 <hardy_> having to use <b> seems unintuative
15:43:18 <hardy_> non intuative
15:43:22 <emmanuel> Well *foo* uses <i>
15:43:32 <emmanuel> we could write some CSS to do what you want
15:43:52 <emmanuel> (says a CSS noob)
15:43:59 <hardy_> he he
15:44:15 <hardy_> improve the help would be much appreciated
15:44:34 <hardy_> some example for images and layouting them for example
15:44:48 <emmanuel> yes indeed. I'll add a TODO and talk to Pete about this
15:44:54 <hardy_> and a short line on how to use bold type face
15:44:55 <hardy_> :-)
15:45:49 <hardy_> btw, I also like to write my entries first in textedit, but I think this would be possible with any decent wiki syntax based blog system
15:46:05 <emmanuel> hardy_: a rare commodity these days :(
15:46:33 <hardy_> indeed
15:49:03 <emmanuel> #action Anyways back to my AS 7 view point blog, could I ask you to write the core of it both sebersole and hardy_ (many with a grain of smarlow) and I can take care of the aggregation and homogenization work. And boom Burr will be happy :) Sounds good?
15:49:58 <hardy_> i can definitely do something about HV
15:57:01 <sebersole> smarlow: you have an account on in.relation?
15:57:13 <sebersole> sorry guys
15:57:53 <sebersole> hardy_: so was the push you did for comonents?
15:57:58 <sebersole> components
15:59:35 <smarlow> sebersole:  I don't think so, how do I get one?
15:59:51 <sebersole> well thats the other thing i dont like about in.relation )
15:59:54 <sebersole> ;)
16:00:00 <sebersole> emmanuel: how does he get one?
16:00:21 <sebersole> you have to know who is in charge of those accounts this month
16:00:22 <sebersole> lol
16:00:59 <emmanuel> I'll create one. I think I can :)
16:01:32 <smarlow> thanks :)
16:01:55 <hardy_> sebersole: https://github.com/hferentschik/hibernate-core/commits/HHH-6173
16:01:57 <jbossbot> jira [HHH-6173] Implement embedded entities (component) mapping [Open (Unresolved) Sub-task, Major, Hardy Ferentschik] http://opensource.atlassian.com/projects/hibernate/browse/HHH-6173
16:03:47 <sebersole> hardy_: cool, i will look
16:03:49 <sebersole> or
16:03:57 <sebersole> did you want to walk through it?
16:04:30 <hardy_> definitely have a look and maybe I can ask you some concrete questions as well
16:04:36 <hardy_> it is still work in progress
16:04:42 <gbadner> hi everyone; sorry, overslept :'(
16:04:54 <sebersole> hardy_: might be better if you ask the concrete questions imo
16:05:02 <hardy_> i need to work on the (sub)path for the embedded properties
16:05:05 <sebersole> it will direct me in how/where to lool
16:05:40 <sebersole> look
16:05:52 <sebersole> gbadner: np
16:06:17 <hardy_> sebersole: ok. just finishing something else and then I will try to formulate a question
16:06:33 <sebersole> hardy_: ok, i will look in the meantime after meeting
16:06:49 <hardy_> ok
16:07:26 <sebersole> so everyone ready for me to start looking at that approach in the dev ml email?
16:07:55 <gbadner> the metamodel state stuff?
16:08:14 <sebersole> well the re-purposing of that code, yes
16:08:54 <gbadner> would you like me to look at types?
16:09:22 <sebersole> gbadner: the problem is that it is a lot of throw away work
16:09:36 <gbadner> which?
16:09:42 <sebersole> i mean i could get the api in place
16:10:05 <sebersole> but actually populating the values behind the interfaces would be totally different after my work
16:10:08 <sebersole> the types
16:10:35 <sebersole> you and i can talk about this in a bit
16:10:58 <gbadner> if there's an easy interim solution, that would work for me
16:11:11 <gbadner> yeah, after the meeting is fine
16:11:22 <sebersole> #endmeeting