From dooger@eagle.ptialaska.net Wed Nov 28 13:47:13 2001 Path: cygnus.com!enews.sgi.com!micro-heart-of-gold.mit.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news2.wam.umd.edu!gun-control From: "Wes Jones" Newsgroups: rec.guns Subject: Re: .223 bolt action recommendations (was: Need help finding just the right rifle) Date: 28 Nov 2001 00:54:18 -0500 Organization: Altopia Corp. - Usenet Access - http://www.altopia.com Lines: 71 Approved: gun-control@cs.umd.edu Message-ID: <9u1u6a$e5j$1@xring.cs.umd.edu> References: <9tuo0o$4rl$1@xring.cs.umd.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: xring.cs.umd.edu X-Trace: grapevine.wam.umd.edu 1006926862 937 128.8.128.179 (28 Nov 2001 05:54:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wam.umd.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 05:54:22 +0000 (UTC) Xref: cygnus.com rec.guns:781767 Tony Henderson wrote in message news:9tuo0o$4rl$1@xring.cs.umd.edu... # 2) The only conflicting answers I got were concerning the use of the # .223 for deer hunting. The answeres ranged from "it is always wrong", # to "it's not ideal, but it'll more than do the job". The people who # say that is always wrong say that it has to be too perfect of a shot # to get a clean kill. My responce to this (based on other posts/emails) # is that this can be solved via a head shot. # # Let me explain, and please tell me if this makes sense.... # If I go for a heart shot on a deer with a rilfe, there is too much # room for error (especially with a .223). If is hit high, low, too far # left, or right, it won't kill the deer. All it will do is cause # damage, and make it flee. This means that I have to try to track it # down and put it out of its misery as soon as possible (I don't think # that this is too ethical, IMHO). However, if I go for a head shot # (between the ear and eye) and miss, the deer simply gets away unhurt # (a high shot misses the head, a low shot either hits the neck (which # would kill it) or misses all togethe, a shot behind the ear misses the # head all together. # Does this sound logical to anybody else. Tony: Don't let the nay-sayers get you down. In my considerable experience with using the .223 on deer I've found that out to about 130 yds any classic shot, either behind the shoulder, through the shoulder, through the brisket on a frontal shot or a head/neck shot will drop them pretty effectively. Hitting the heart isn't necessary on a body shot but it is the best we can hope for of course. I remember one deer I shot with a Mini-14 that was running almost broadside at maybe 70 yards in which I hit just behind the shoulder, breaking one rib going in. The shot was a bit high as well and broke another rib going out. The deer ran maybe another 20 yards and rolled up in a ball. Another shot at a standing deer at just over 100 yds was similarly placed but the deer was quartering away just a bit and this one got both lungs and then shattered the off side shoulder, the bullet ending up just under the hide and retaining ober 50% of it's weight. These were run of the mill Speer 55 grain bullets in fairly conservative handloads. Hot loads with some of the heavier hunting bullets available now should do better, if that's possible. In all I've taken over 20 deer with the .223 in that Mini-14 with the factory sights and had to track just one. That one was a poor hit (my fault) as the deer was standing in tall grass and I mis-calculated where the sweet spot was. Hit a bit too far back, it ran almost a quarter mile before lying down and bleeding out. We found it dead about 30 minutes after it was shot. Compare this with a fellow using a 30-06 on another hunt who shot a smallish buck and then had to track it and shoot it twice more before he could get close enough to get a quick kill shot to the head. It's not the gun that kills, it's the shooter. A well placed bullet of most any caliber will do a clean job and a poorly placed bullet of most any caliber won't. Know your gun and know your personal limitations and have fun. That's the name of the game. Best, wes ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Learn about rec.guns at http://doubletap.cs.umd.edu/rec.guns Rec.guns readers and MPFO team up with two-rifle raffle for the cause. Order your tickets on Fulton Armory M1 Garand / Carbine package now by clicking on www.direct-action.org