From dhenriques@earthlink.net Thu Sep 6 17:12:57 2001 Path: cygnus.com!enews.sgi.com!news-out.spamkiller.net!propagator-la!news-in-la.newsfeeds.com!news-in.superfeed.net!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Reply-To: "Dudley Henriques" From: "Dudley Henriques" Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student References: <9n4da5$92u$1@news.tamu.edu> <3B9677C5.9D484C68@alt.net> <3B97A96C.F29F2E60@alt.net> <3B97C8C5.70378F10@alt.net> Subject: Re: 1-g roll Lines: 109 Organization: International Fighter Pilots Fellowship X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 20:44:08 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.214.206.127 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 999809048 63.214.206.127 (Thu, 06 Sep 2001 13:44:08 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 13:44:08 PDT X-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 13:40:30 PDT (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Xref: cygnus.com rec.aviation.piloting:203072 rec.aviation.student:189183 "highflyer" wrote in message news:3B97C8C5.70378F10@alt.net... > Dudley Henriques wrote: > > Ah yes!!! But can we just say that and leave it there HF? :-)) > > Reality can replace preventive measures in split seconds in these > > situations, and that's what we're really talking about here.... > > survival!!! > > I think we have to assume that anyone in this scenario has already missed > > the boat on prevention. The choice now is g or speed! The result of going to > > g at Vne is obvious ; bad move!!! > > It's far better to flatten the recovery busting the redline and keep the g > > to a low roar. I agree about the flutter. It could be a real problem if the > > airspeed went high enough. Hopefully, considering all that could go wrong in > > this situation, the airspeed won't be allowed to reach this point. > > Like all emergency measures in flying, it's always a trade off. There's neve > > r a perfect way out. The element of risk for a Vne recovery is there no > > matter which way you go. The g is a known killer at Vne. The airspeed is > > bad, but can be worked by a skillful pilot. You work the airspeed > > gently.........and as you do this you muse to yourself........"Damn...I wish > > I'd listened to Highflyer's warning about not getting into this mess!!!!!! > > ". :-))))))) > > Dudley > > > > I must bow, Dudley. I can remember way back when, when I was young and > foolish instead of old and foolish, I decided to teach myself > aerobatics. > In a Taylorcraft. I had read the book. SURE you can teach yourself to > fly by reading a book! :-) I went out and tried the classic barrel > roll. > Dove a bit to get sufficient entry speed. Back stick and full aileron. > coming up and around nicely. Am I supposed to relax that stick about > here? What do you mean the entry speed wasn't high enough? How come > I am going down and not around? WOW, look at that airspeed. Pull back > on the stick, gently does it, you are going like a bat out of hell! > EASE it back. That windshield is shaking pretty bad, don't let it blow > out now! How fast AM I going? I can't tell, the airspeed doesn't read > that high! Nose coming up now. Airspeed starting to come down. Hold > it there, keep the G's down, coming up. Level flight. What happened > to the two thousand feet of altitude I climbed first for safety sake? > I don't think I want to do that again! > > I did let the airspeed build to keep the G's down between two and three. > Pitch control is critical. Gentle and smooth got the job done. It > worked, I am still here. But it was NOT skill. It was pure dumb luck! > :-) > > -- > HighFlyer > Highflight Aviation Services You don't even want to know the stupid stuff I've done HF!!! :-) I remember one time; I was out playing some formation acro with a buddy of mine out over the boonies. Both of us were flying Mustangs. I usually flew the wing position when we did this.[ I never told John, but I had this aversion to having that big Hamilton of his that close up my butt...especially if we had been out the night before!! :-) ] Anyway, I'm tucked in on his left wing back and down about twenty feet when he calls for a 4 g loop. I slide back and inside just enough to get a 45 degree paint between my windshield bow mirror and his left well cover [the position for a vertical maneuver that keeps me from slicing off his tail section and bending my prop!! ] Well, I noticed the altimeter was a bit low at the maneuver onset, but still within parameters for the loop. John calls the maneuver and walks us up to 4g's. I'm glued on the paint ; holding position. You get a peripheral view of the horizon holding a position paint in formation acro. Without taking my eyes off John, I knew he was long over the top. On the way down I felt we were long as well. The g didn't feel right...it wasn't enough! Anyway, I'm beginning now to feel the g building at a faster rate than I should be feeling......and this ain't good!! We're past vertical and I can see the ground under his wing. You know that awful feeling you get when you know you are in too deep? Well I had it right there!!! You mentally do the math and geometry instantly in these situations. I could see we were going to make it, but it was going to be close....damn close! I could "feel" that we had enough g available to make the recovery arc, but being low and outside, I was committed lower than John was. He eased us out with enough room under my airplane to maybe stuff a cow between me and the ground. Then I notice we're "in" a field with trees at the end ahead of us. I shouted "Break...Break up!!...Give me some room, quick!!! " John pulls up just in time for me to go knife edge between two trees at the end of the field. I swear, I flew between them left wing down, standing on the right rudder! End of stupid Dudley story! Needless to say, we had a few beers that night while we went over entry altitudes and g profiles for pilots who wish to live longer lives! :-))) Ah yes, the learning curve!!!!! Ain't it wonderful? Sometimes I don't know how I ever made it this far in life. Somehow, if we're lucky, we sometimes get another chance in this business, but you can't depend on it. As you have so correctly said, and I reiterate, it's far better to stay out of trouble in the first place! :-) Dudley